SDRC...WHAT IS IT?

[Dennis]

Does any body know what kind of CAD program
SDRC is?

[Dave]

Years ago before Windows, SolidWorks, and SolidEdge came out there were some
rather high end CAD products that many designers were using. Prices were
typically $20K to $50K per seat which did not include the hardware that they
ran on. Most of them allowed a combination of solid modeling, surface
modeling and wireframe modeling. Some people in the business called these
products the "Big 5". Included were SDRC, Pro Engineer, Computervision,
Unigraphics and Catia. Pro Engineer, Unigraphics, and Catia still exist
today as products. Computervision in 1998 was purchased by Pro Engineer and
SDRC about two years or so ago was purchased by the company that owns
Unigraphics. SDRC has pretty much gone away as a product and is in the final
stages of being blended into a line of products that includes Unigraphics.
Ford in North America was probably the most known large user of SDRC.

Post by Dennis
Does any body know what kind of CAD program
SDRC is?

[Dennis]

Post by Dave
Years ago before Windows, SolidWorks, and SolidEdge came out there were some
rather high end CAD products that many designers were using. Prices were
typically $20K to $50K per seat which did not include the hardware that they
ran on. Most of them allowed a combination of solid modeling, surface
modeling and wireframe modeling. Some people in the business called these
products the "Big 5". Included were SDRC, Pro Engineer, Computervision,
Unigraphics and Catia. Pro Engineer, Unigraphics, and Catia still exist
today as products. Computervision in 1998 was purchased by Pro Engineer and
SDRC about two years or so ago was purchased by the company that owns
Unigraphics. SDRC has pretty much gone away as a product and is in the final
stages of being blended into a line of products that includes Unigraphics.
Ford in North America was probably the most known large user of SDRC.

Post by Dennis
Does any body know what kind of CAD program
SDRC is?

Thank you! I appreciate the knowledgable
answer.

[Cliff Huprich]

Post by Dave
Included were SDRC

Structural Dynamics Research Corporation (SDRC) in Milford, Ohio created
& sold the software way back when. It's called IDEAS.
Ford had their own in-house system, PDGS (Product Design Graphics System),
and then went to IDEAS after much debate (instead of Computervision or
Unigraphics or Catia ... can't use what the other guys are using, after all.)

Just as GM intended to add parts of their own in-house system CGS
(Corporate Graphics System) to Unigraphics, Ford intended to add PDGS
functionality to IDEAS as I recall it.

Then EDS/Unigraphics/PLM bought IDEAS ...

Most major automotive vendors that sell to the big 3 support seats
of multiple systems for compatibility and translation (if needed) issues.

Anyone know what happened to the rest of the software (non-IDEAS)
that SDRC developed? Did UG get it too?

HTH

[hoser_71]

A big reason EDS bought SDRC was because of their PDM product,
Metaphase. Metaphase is a huge resourse vacuum to implement and
maintain, which is in line with EDS strategy. Metaphase, I-DEAS, and
the rest of the CAD related software was purchased by EDS. If I
remember right, SDRC's vibrational and test software was purchased by
MTS.

Most of the developers and sales people from SDRC have left/let go and
are now working on other CAD companies or 3rd party applications. You
can see the infulence in some of the mid market programs that came
from I-DEAS.

Joe Bartels

[SBC]

The thing that bothers me most about EDS is a recent press release that
talked about the new chain of command and the direction of the company. I
do not have the entire article but did manage to keep this:

Sometime in Oct 2003: EDS announced it will refocus itself on its core
business - IT outsourcing, and stated it wants to sell a significant portion
of its UGS PLM division which includes (Unigraphics NX, I-DEAS, Nastran NX
and the ParaSolidS Kernel).

The big thing that concerns me would be what will happen to the ParaSolids
Kerneal as SolidWorks uses it.....

Post by hoser_71
A big reason EDS bought SDRC was because of their PDM product,
Metaphase. Metaphase is a huge resourse vacuum to implement and
maintain, which is in line with EDS strategy. Metaphase, I-DEAS, and
the rest of the CAD related software was purchased by EDS. If I
remember right, SDRC's vibrational and test software was purchased by
MTS.
Most of the developers and sales people from SDRC have left/let go and
are now working on other CAD companies or 3rd party applications. You
can see the infulence in some of the mid market programs that came
from I-DEAS.
Joe Bartels

[Cliff Huprich]

Post by SBC
The thing that bothers me most about EDS is a recent press release that
talked about the new chain of command and the direction of the company. I
Sometime in Oct 2003: EDS announced it will refocus itself on its core
business - IT outsourcing, and stated it wants to sell a significant portion
of its UGS PLM division which includes (Unigraphics NX, I-DEAS, Nastran NX
and the ParaSolidS Kernel).
The big thing that concerns me would be what will happen to the ParaSolids
Kerneal as SolidWorks uses it.....

SBC,
EDS bought UG as a firm and can sell it as an operating firm.
There's little overlap between EDS's core business and UG IMHO.

It was that way before and easily can be again. I see no problems
*unless* there are bits of GM software in UG that are restricted. Even so,
there can be GM & non-GM versions I think. It would only be at the
applications software level I think, not at the kernel or part database level.

HTH

[Zander]

Also, folded into SDRC at one point was the popular cam package SmartCam
which was originally developed by some company I can't
remember....Camnetics or something.

[Rocko]

A company has bought the rights to the SmartCam code here is the link:
http://www.smartcamcnc.com/index.asp

Post by Zander
Also, folded into SDRC at one point was the popular cam package SmartCam
which was originally developed by some company I can't
remember....Camnetics or something.

[JJ]

I think that is very good news. IIRC SmartCAM was originally privately owned
and then bought by CAMEX who also offered CAMAND as a high end package. When
SDRC bought CAMEX, the plan was to kill SmartCAM and then merge the
functionality of CAMAND into SDRC's existing package which was called
Generative Machining and was fully integrated into the solid modeling
package (I-DEAS). They put SmartCAM on life support and offered users a
package which teamed their scaled down solid modeler, Artisan, with a low
end version of Generative Machining.

Many or most SmartCAM customers found this unacceptable because the
substitute program was cumbersome and lacked much of the elegant
capabilities that they were used to. It would surprise if the majority of
people who this was pushed upon don't still use SmartCAM unless they
switched to a different company's product. Anyway, the point is that I bet
there are a lot of SmartCAM owners who are very stoked to see this
resurrection.

JJ

Post by Rocko
http://www.smartcamcnc.com/index.asp

Post by Zander
Also, folded into SDRC at one point was the popular cam package SmartCam
which was originally developed by some company I can't
remember....Camnetics or something.

[Sean-Michael Adams]

Post by JJ
Anyway, the point is that I bet
there are a lot of SmartCAM owners who are very stoked to see this
resurrection.

Yes JJ!

Absolutely awesome. I used smartcam for a six year stint as the
implemeter and "guru" (yes I did wear a robe and sandals) and loved
it. It was a great program.

I always viewed SDRC as the people who killed smartcam, or at least
dealt it it's coup-de-grace. It sounds like these new people might do
something useful with it again. We ended up looking seariously at
mastercam after the SDRC takeover, complete with its late 1980's
interface - the strenth of which was in its CNC programming ability
(like smartcam) and not some add-on-milling-wannabe-module.

Usually when I hear of an "add-on" module for CAM programming, it
means that some dilettante wants to didle with software because they
think they can make a buck. I liked SmartCAM - it was really good
stuff.

Later -

SMA

[JJ]

I'll bet SDRC's icing of SmartCAM was a HUGE boost to MasterCAM and other
products in that marketspace.

JJ

Post by Sean-Michael Adams

Post by JJ
Anyway, the point is that I bet
there are a lot of SmartCAM owners who are very stoked to see this
resurrection.

Yes JJ!
Absolutely awesome. I used smartcam for a six year stint as the
implemeter and "guru" (yes I did wear a robe and sandals) and loved
it. It was a great program.
I always viewed SDRC as the people who killed smartcam, or at least
dealt it it's coup-de-grace. It sounds like these new people might do
something useful with it again. We ended up looking seariously at
mastercam after the SDRC takeover, complete with its late 1980's
interface - the strenth of which was in its CNC programming ability
(like smartcam) and not some add-on-milling-wannabe-module.
Usually when I hear of an "add-on" module for CAM programming, it
means that some dilettante wants to didle with software because they
think they can make a buck. I liked SmartCAM - it was really good
stuff.
Later -
SMA

[Cliff Huprich]

Post by JJ
I'll bet SDRC's icing of SmartCAM was a HUGE boost to MasterCAM and other
products in that marketspace.

I'll bet it was not selling well ....

[Cliff Huprich]

Post by JJ
IIRC SmartCAM was originally privately owned

Someone claimed that it was based on ComputerVision code <G>.

[Cliff Huprich]

Post by Rocko
http://www.smartcamcnc.com/index.asp

You may wish to revise that. This assumption/claim has been
made in alt.machines.cnc as well and I think it caused confusion
for poor jb again <G>.

EDS/Unigraphics still seems to own the copyright and thus probably
the source code ... see at the bottom of the pages.

What I *think* they have is the right to market it and sell support services
(such as answering user questions and doing postprocessor configuration),
as what looks lika a VAR.
The may also have a copy of the source as that's handy for finding
answers to some problems & issues (and not uncommon).

Do they have *exclusive* rights as a VAR? They did not say so.
Do they have source code product development rights (as the actual
owner would have?) Again, they did not say so. I'd expect it would
take several million dollars in developement to even begin such major
tasks ... and quite a few programmers. How large are they?

But first I'd think they would actually need the rights to the software ...
which it looks like UG still has.

Note also the lack of any mention of plans for new releases.

My best guesses, anyway, and not contradicted so far by anyone AFAIK.

What's NOT said can tell a lot <G>.

BTW, UG IS offering discounts on upgrades to UG to SmartCam
licensees .... hardly what one would expect if they thought it still
a viable product.

I'd also wonder if the current code will run on the upcoming
MS operating systems well .. buyer beware I think.

HTH

[Mark M]

Zander,

SmartCam was originally authored by a company called "Point Control".
It was first purchased by Camax, who had a UNIX based CAM system called
Cammand.


Regards

Mark

Post by Zander
Also, folded into SDRC at one point was the popular cam package SmartCam
which was originally developed by some company I can't
remember....Camnetics or something.

[Brian Lawson]

I still use Smartcam V11.5 Production Turning, Advanced Fabrication
and Advanced Production Milling to this day. Taking cost and training
into account I have not found any of the new breed that can create
code any better (you can create specific code generaters for your
controller) apart from taking native file formats but Smartcam has a
decent cam conversion program that from time to time has saved me a
few headaches is SWX. I run it on a W2K machine but it also runs fine
on XP.

Brian

[Cliff Huprich]

(you can create specific code generaters for your controller)

Postprocessors?
Common to most CAM systems.

How many axes supported? 3?
Complex surface machining?

[Brian Lawson]

Don't need bells and whistles, its paid for, I know how to use it and its works.

[Sean-Michael Adams]

Post by Cliff Huprich
Postprocessors?
Common to most CAM systems.
How many axes supported? 3?
Complex surface machining?

I think smartcam called their code output process "code generation"
and not post processing. I think they may not have written out a CL
file (or just kept it internalized) so hence their aversion to the
concept of "POST" processing - your output code straight from the
interface (more marketing that anything it was still outputing machine
commands like everyone else). To get code you needed a geometry model,
job file and machine specific generator template file.

The product was apples to apples in price & functionality (mostly -
dont get to touchy here folks) with MasterCam i.e 3 levels of
functionality and price point.

The architecture was nice and open with this system - I miss things
like that. It was easy for template programmers like me to get good
code results without getting a degree in computer programming.

SMA

[Brian Lawson]

Sean

I maybe should have elaborated a bit more in my earlier post, suppose
what I was trying to say is that Smartcam is quite easy to use and has
a degree of customization that is not to difficult for a non programer
to get a handle on. If they ever do more developement, i.e. reading
native file ect. it could put it back on the software map.

Regards

Brian